Sejrherren Krarup (V) sender Enhedslisten til tælling
Hvis Enhedslisten går istykker over Asmaa’s opstilling vil det være første gang at et parti smadres af en politisk modstander. Normalt bukker partier under fordi tiden løber fra dem eller at deres egne politikere ødelægger det i intern strid. Men aldrig har en debat rejst af en politisk modstander om grundlæggende principper skadet et parti, som den debat om Asmaa’s tørklæde Krarup startede. Krarup kan her indskrive sig her i historien som den første der formår at lukke et parti udefra ved ren hudfletning af argumenter, hvis Enhedslisten skulle bukke under i sagen om Asmaa.
Hvis Enhedslisten rykker Asmaa længere ned på listen og dermed udenfor rækkevidde af Folketinget vil partiet måske nok overleve krisen men Krarup vil dog stadig have banket det på plads - udefra! Partiet vil nemlig have taget hans kritik til sig og rettet ind - til højre.
Sagen er, at den præcise analyse af Asmaa’s tørklæde, som en manifestation af et sæt værdier, der står i modsætning til det folkestyre’s talerstol hun vil betræde i tilfælde af at hun bliver stemt ind i Folketinget. Tørklædet står derfor og af andre grunde i samme modsætning til de principper som Enhedslisten selv hylder. Og det var krarup der under stort spetakkel satte fingeren på dette og tvang alle partier og politikere til at tage stilling til tørklædet, som totalitært symbol. Og skønt alle tog afstand fra Krarup og ikke ville acceptere tørklædet, som et totalitært symbol gav alle ham ret i at det stod i et direkte modsætning til demokrati og ligestilling. Hvilken direkte modsætning til demokrati’et der ikke var noget totalitært turde ingen sige og der kom ingen alternative forslag. Jeg har selv svært ved at finde på nogen, for der er vel kun det totalitære når det ikke er det plurale.
Jeg helligede den lille føljeton Sejrherren Krarup (II, III, IV), der snart kan komme til sit første klimaks, til den udvikling fra da Krarup første gang satte debatten på den anden ende. For det affødte at alle begyndte at tage mod til at udvikle et sprog, der rummede kritik af islam uden at de stod i modsætning til deres partiers holdning. Mod var det eneste der skulle til, for ingen partier i Danmark deler værdier med islam. Og med debatten og det nye sprog - den hårde tones normalisering - skete der også skred i erkendelsen. I den første skrev jeg
Den seneste debat om tørklæder som Søren Krarup startede med sin modstand mod at se et muslimsk tørklæde fra Folketingets talerstol har delt vandene i uhørt grad. Man kan i essensen se tørklædet som et problem eller som et stykke harmløs beklædning. Ingen kan undslå sig fra at tage principiel stilling og derfor er debatten så ophidset.(…)
SF og Socialdemokraterne har hurtigt possitioneret sig imod tørklædet og selv om de gerne vil overfalde “sortepræsten” så kræver det ualmindelig gode talegaver at overbevise vælgerne om at de ikke grundlæggende er enige. Det er noget man kan rive dem i næsen i de næste mange år fordi denne debat ser ud til at blive principiel for det politiske landskabs koncensus. Krarups pointe er provokerende men uimodståelig. Og hver gang debatten om muslimske kvinders kranke skæbne dukker op vil man referere til Søren Krarup, der vil komme til at fremstå som en helt omend en vulgær en af slagsen.
Og det er i den tråd jeg har fulgt udviklingen og jeg citerede Sass Larsen fraq en debat i Folketinget, hvor han tog afstand både fra Krarup og fra tørklædet, forstå det hvem der kan.
Jeg synes der er en præmis i den diskussion, der er rejst som er forkert. (…) Jeg er enig med spørgeren [Krarup] i at man…hvis man iklæder sig et symbol, på reverset eller som hovedbeklædning eller andet, så må man også bære det signal, som det symbol nu engang udtrykker. Det kan der så være forskellige opfattelser af, men det er også derfor vi i Socialdemokratiet faktisk har sagt, at vi vil ikke gå ind og lave forbud mod de her ting, men vi vil godt sende et signal.
Vi vil godt sende et signal til alle de unge piger i det danske samfund om, at vi synes de skulle lade være med at tage tørklæde på. Vi synes sådan set, at de skulle smide det tørklæde, snuppe friheden, tage del i ungdomsoprøret, tage del i det danske frisind, men all right.
Modstilling af tørklædet og frihed. Og Røhn Hornbæk overgik alle i idioti.
Jeg vil sådan set godt lægge dyb afstand til hr. Søren Krarup’s bemærkninger, men det gør jeg fordi jeg jo godt ved, hvordan de kan blive modtaget blandt andet hos muslimer.
Dermed var en del af debatten allerede forrykket et stykke væk fra personen Krarup og de korrekte politikere turde efterhånden udforske et sprog for kritik af islam. Alligevel var det overraskende at læse Pernille Vigsø Bagge ligestillingsordfører for SF gå så aggressivt til ideen om flerkoneri i Kristeligt Dagblad (indrømmet, det er ikke tørklædet, men kritik af islam er kritik af islam og synet på kvinder er synet på kvinder og den sammenstilling følger kort efter)
Mit budskab til Abdul Wahid Pedersen er derfor: Du kan ryge og rejse. Og alle, der er enige med imamen, kan drage med ham. Vi skal ikke have den slags parallelsamfund i Danmark, hvor kvinder efterlades i et juridisk limbo uden rettigheder i forhold til dansk lov, men accepteret i forhold til islam, for ikke at tale om de enorme risici, der følger af at blive socialt stigmatiseret og isoleret i forhold til det omgivende samfund. Vi vil ikke have det.
Det er uforsonelige ord og de kommer fra SF. Der er en modstilling mellem demokratiets lov og islam og at efterlade kvinder under islamisk lov er af det onde. Sproget har ændret sig fordi debatten kommer til at dreje sig om principper. Samme postering citerede nemlig en teolog ligeledes i Kristeligt Dagblad for ordene
Især det sidste kan sommetider virkelig give mig sved på panden. For det ligner noget, man kunne kalde religiøs apartheid, det vil sige en skelnen mellem muslimer som de “rene” og os andre som “urene”. Og undskyld mig, her kommer tørklædet så måske alligevel ind som et middel til at skelne mellem muslimer og alle os andre? Også forbuddet mod muslimske kvinders giftermål med ikke-muslimer samt den strengeste straf for frafald (dødsstraf) fra islam kan gøre mig nervøs. Det er ligesom noget, der ikke rigtig kan kombineres med religionsfrihed og “menneskerettighederne og ligeværd uanset race, køn og religion”, som jeg har hørt, du også går ind for.
Sejrherren Krarup! Han sagde det ingen andre turde, han holdt ud og han sejrede. Han har rystet den yderste venstrefløj alene ved at have ret og nu venter vi på hvor stor en bonus vi får udbetalt.
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Og mens jeg sidder og roder rundt på nettet falder jeg over den radikale Morten Østergaards (ret kedelige) blog og han skriver
Fogh taler om ligestilling og kvindefrigørelse, men vil sende irakiske kvinder hjem til tvangsislamisering i Irak.
Jamen dog, er det virkelig et fænomen de Radikale erkender? Østergaard er næstformand i Den Radikale Folketingsgruppe.
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Og når vi nu er ved det :
forklar mig så, hvis du kan, HVORDAN man kan få forenet Islam og de menneskeskabte regler og love som de demokratiske samfund bygger på ?
Hver eneste gang jeg hører f.eks. Khader udtrykke sin begejstring for demokratiet stiller jeg mig selv det sprøgsmål : hvilken form for demokrati er det han som muslim snakker om ?
For ifølge Allah er alle menneskeskabte regler og love forbudte - og kun hans, Allahs regler og love, givet i Koranen via Muhammed, er gældende.
Menneskekabte regler og love er ifølge islam haram!
Så sæt dette i kontekst med f.eks. de Universelle Menneskerettigheder, som er menneskeksabte regler og love, og bid mærke i, at disse accepterer den islamiske verden ikke.
Derimod har de skabt deres egne såkaldte Menneskerettigheder, som bygger på Shariaen.
UN, med afdøde Mary Robinson i spidsen har godkendt og ligestillet de islamiske Menneskerettigheder med de Universelle menneskerettigheder!
Khader taler om demokrati.
Når det kommer til stykket drejer det sig måske om Islamisk demokrati - for han kan som muslimer umuligt omgåes de påbud han har fået pålagt sig af Allah.
Enten drejer det sig om et demokrati byggende på Shariaen - eller Khader er Frafalden !
Han kan ikke begge dele på samme tid : være muslim og leve de menneskeskabte demokratiske regler og love!
Det var en svær en og jeg tror at det er et trickspørgsmål, hvor der ingen løsning er. Lad mig se….hm…..Hvis demokratiet bygger på menneskets lov og islam bygger på dæmonguden Allahs lov så er svaret…..øh, bum, bum..Så er svaret NEJ! De to kan ikke forenes!
Var det det rigtige svar Vivi?
Det er syndt at Krarup ikke har en bedre gennemslagskraft i den bredere del af befolkningen. Han er jo langt fra den sorte præst, som mange opfatter ham som, men et intelligent varmt menneske.
fhv grisehabdler
Drokles -
Hjertelig tak, du.
Men ser du, bag det grinagtige ved spørgsmålet ligger der altså noget seriøst, nemlig : hvordan skal vi, der er Vantro, kunne stole på en Khader, og andre muslimer der som han udtaler sig begejstret om demokratiet?
Enten er han frafalden og kan troværdigt udtale sig om det demokratiske system -
eller han snakker om en anden form for demokrati, nemlig en islamisk der hviler på Shariaen og han fører dermed folk bag lyset!
Eksemplet med de islamiske Menneskerettighedserklæringer, kaldet Cairo-erklæringen og de Universelle skabt af Vestlig tankegods skal blot tydeliggøre hvad det er jeg mener.
For HVIS muslimer kunne gå ind for de Universelle Menneskerettigheder havde de ikke brug for at kreere de der er at læse i Cario-deklarationen.
Men det er præcist hvad de ikke kan!
Derfor kan de heller ikke af samme årsag gå ind for de regler og love de Vestlige demokratier har som fundament.
Så enten lyver folk som Khader helt bevidst - eller han er frafalden og dermed ikke muslim.
JEg troede et øjeblik at du var blevet vred på mig Vivi, fordi du mente at jeg var apologet. Det er meget sårende ikke at blive regnet for islamofob.
Jeg er helt med på din pointe, men den strækkes måske for langt idet at man sagtens kan tænke sig at Khader ikke foralvor har gjort sig den modsætning klart, enten fordi han er doven, naiv eller bange for svaret. På den måde behøver han jo ikke at lyve.
Men jeg er helt med på at i og med at islam er en modsætning til demokratiet står hver muslim i et dilemma den dag der skal træffes et valg. Derfor er antallet af muslimer afgørende for hvor stabilt et demokrati kan blive. Det samme så man på en hvis måde da kommunister under 2. Verdenkrig skulle gøre op med sig selv om de kæmpede for 1. Internationale eller Danmark.
Revolutionen i Iran er nok det klareste eksempel for din pointe. Her gik verdslige intellektuelle og marxister og hvad ved jeg semmen med muslimernes Khomeni mod Shahen. Uagtet hvem folket ville have til at vinde kunne de verdslige ikke modstå det islamiske pres fordi den fælles reference for samfundets moral i sidste ende var baseret på Koranen. Selv om mange iranere nok kunne se at Khomeni var en ulykke forholdt de sig passive. De skulle ikke nyde noget at gå imod gud’s mænd. Det ville jo kræve et opgør med deres tro at det kan være svært under en revolution.
Man ser også små tegn på det herhjemme. De fleste kender nok muslimer, som man lidt nedladende karakteriserer som “gode nok” og de fleste muslimer er også moderate og mange endda verdslige. Men hvor er de når der er konflikt mellem demokratiet og islam? Hvorfor ender de altid med at kryste ud når de religiøse følelser kommer i sving? Fordi du har ret. Den modsætning, der er mellem islam og demokrati bor i hver muslims hjerte og en konflikt lammer ham så han ganske passivt overlader banen til de religiøse, som der er en hel del af, hvolket vil sige at de religiøse med nogen rigtighed kommer til at tale (bomber, vold og trusler er også sprog) på alle muslimers vegne. islams største styrke er at det får gode mennekser til ikke at gøre noget, for nu at parafrasere en eller anden amerikaner. Men de lyver ikke nødvendigvis eller hvis de gør lyver de måske mest for sig selv.
Jeg forstår egentlig ikke hvorfor Cairo-deklerationen ikke fylder mere i den europæiske debat for den er så klokkeklar et problem. Den modstiller jo netop Vestens og Østens syn på demokrati og menneske. (Har du set 300? Se den! to timer i selskab med et kryptofscistisk manifest fyldt med homoerotiske undertoner http://monokultur.dk/2007/04/03/300-er/)
Kære Drokles !
Aldrig om jeg kan blive vred på dig … tror jeg da.
Undskyld jeg formulerede mig så det kom til at tage sig ud som om jeg ville fare i flæsket på dig.
Det var virkelig ikke hensigten!
Og jeg er helt på det rene med du er et af det de æreværdige medlemmer af “Selskab af Islamofober”!
Har endnu ikke set ” 300 “, men når jeg får muligheden vil jeg.
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